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Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?

 
#1 Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
10/07/2006 13:15

eric to deleted (#0)

I'm looking at management consultancy positions with Mott Macdonald, Atos, Capgemini. Grateful for honest advice as to the merits (and otherwise) of these companies.

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#2 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
13/07/2006 20:51

Kato to eric (#1)

What type of practice are you looking at ?

As far as I understand, Mott is strongly developping its PFI/PPP and Public Sector consultancy teams while CapGem& Atos are more IT.

Do you want me to find out if Motts is doing IT Consultancy ?

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#3 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
14/07/2006 14:29

gary ablett to Kato (#2)

CapGem obviously have a strong reputation as a large, international consultancy and have some interesting and varied client jobs. In terms of CV 2 years down the track, I would suggest these look the strongest bet.

atos do quite a bit on the SI side of things and have some good quality people. I have worked with them on a large program when i was a client side consultant and they had a strong team.

Motty are a new player in management consultancy and traditionally an engineering company. I would be suspicious about joining these if you are completely new to consulting. I'm not sure they would have the capability to offer good roles or training for a new consultant. Perhaps Kato can prove me wrong!

Have you looked at PA or Deloitte?? Both have great reputations and outstanding talent. If I was looking to start off in management consultancy now, I wouldnt look too far away from these lot. The Accentures, IBMs etc essentially focus on large SI stuff (boring).

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#4 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
14/07/2006 14:30

jesper to gary ablett (#3)

mott mac are not a management consultancy.

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#5 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
15/07/2006 10:37

camelster to gary ablett (#3)

I agree with Gary that Mott MacDonald is traditionally an engineering company. However, the company has a growing Management Consultancy team based in London which among others, specialises in PFI/PPP advisory and other teams with separate specialities (Organisation, Business Process, Risk, Strategy …). Google “Mott MacDonald Management Consultancy” to find their dedicated website. As far as PFI/PPP is concerned, they are a leading player in the UK and Europe with a truly international and driven team. They greatly value foreign language speakers! – But this part of the business would probably best fit with an efinancial career post.

To further reply to Gary, I believe that Mott MacDonald heavily invests in staff development and as such offers project diversity, an extensive hard and soft skill training, and true early responsibility and exposure. The culture being extremely ambitious and dynamic, they push young staff to take as much responsibility as they can/want that you can then easily resell 2/3 years down the track.

In terms of salary, I have understood that the Management Consultancy division of the company matches the current Management Consultancy market.

One average aspect of the company is that to a culture “we don’t advertise to the general public”, it is not recognised as it should be. It is probably why Jesper such an open statement. Seriously, Mott MacDonald being a member of the Management Consultancies Association, I would tend to believe that they have something related to the industry.

In terms of location, the team is split between South Bank and Croydon.

Contact me if you want more specific information. camel70ster@googlemail.com

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#6 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
15/07/2006 13:12

eric to camelster (#5)

Thanks for all the advice. I've been working in Whitehall for the past few years and just fancy a change (and higher salary!). Public sector consulting would be a natural fit for me I guess with my experience although i would be keen to broaden my horizons.

A concern I have with MM is that I've been told they are not currently in the top 100 management consultancies. Although it appears they are relatively new to the field and I suppose it could be a interesting time.

I think maybe i need to take some time to do a little more research. There are so many firms and it becomes difficult to decipher exactly who is better at what! Would you recommend PA over the others?

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#7 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
17/07/2006 14:41

Patrick K to eric (#6)

Weither it is Mott Mac or other Consultancies, the ranking depends on the surveys the companies reply to. Unfortunately, many consultancies don't bother doing it for time, lack of interest or $$ reasons ... hence leading to confusion for prospective applicants.

Being new in the UK, I struggle to find a reliable ranking. Which one would you recommend ?

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#8 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
18/07/2006 00:40

Tomas Freiburger to Patrick K (#7)

I agree that it is difficult to find reliable comparisons, rankings etc. Even the MCA and MCA awards are a back-slapping circle. Management Today (I think) published a "Top 200" a couple of years ago which was solely based on firm revenues, so a sheer measure of size rather than quality.

I think that the best place for consultancy rankings, if you can find them, is in the press for the industries/sectors that they serve. Unfortunately not good for broad comparisons of different firms but at least you get the client's point of view which is ultimately the most important. For example, in the sector I sit in (insurance) Reactions magazine publishes its own ranking.

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#9 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
18/07/2006 13:17

lofty to Tomas Freiburger (#8)

True that you can't always rely on rankings etc. However, if you were looking at management consultancy (largely in the public sector) i would think you would be better off applying to the likes of KPMG, PA, Hedra, CapGem etc. MM specialise in engineering and although they have a management consultancy arm, they will not be able to offer as wide a range of projects in that field as the more established mc's.

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#10 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
18/07/2006 21:38

Patrick K to lofty (#9)

Tomas, I agree with you but I feel that at the end of the day, the company pay to be in the magazines, or put some ressources to fill the required surveys. Therefore the ranking highlights the companies who do the best Public Relations. (I am far from saying that it is bad to do a good PR though). My concern is to find a way to evaluate the company who don't bother doing PR. Different reasons are possible : Already a strong client base and they don't have to look for jobs, too job focused and not marketing oriented, nothing to sell, ... Does anyone know where to find an independant survey ?

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#11 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
18/07/2006 21:51

Patrick K to lofty (#9)

Lofty, I agree also with you but based on the fact that you can only do a small number of assignments during a year, I am wondering waht is the best "resale" option after 2 year of experience between:

1- Joining a big Consultancy with a name (PA, PWC, ...) which has a wide a range of projects. But you don't physically have the time to try every one of them.

2- Joining a growing Consultancy with a growing name (Mott MacDonald, ... )with a smaller portefolio but which will give you more exposure and more responsability than the big Consultancy as Camelster was saying.

If some recruiter read the post, what option would you value most to recruit a Senior Consultant ?

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#12 RE: Mott Mac, Capgem, Atos? Who's better, who's best?
22/07/2006 20:24

recruiter to Patrick K (#11)

Having recruited for several MC's over the past few years I would have to say that having a PA, CapGem, Deloitte on the CV would put you in with a much better shout of becoming a senior consultant with a top firm than if you had Mott Macdonald on it. I have to confess I am not familiar with MM's consultancy work. By and large, they would appear to be an engineering consultancy.

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