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A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!

 
#1 A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
11/05/2011 14:14

saas413

Dear All,

I am new to this forum and would like to apologise in advance in case I fail to honour the rules of the game. I will try my very best to keep the story simple and to the point.

I have managed to put myself into a total mess and would heartily appreciate your guidance in putting an end to my misery.

I am a banker with nearly 10 years of solid work experience within investment banking and consulting. In addition, I have a decent educational background. My dilemma is that I managed to land a CCJ on my credit file in 2009, which is currently outstanding but have an arrangement in place. Above all, I was defrauded for nearly 8k by someone last year and was dragged into a fraudulent insurance claim. Once the investigation was completed I was issued with a Caution. The fraudster fled from the country and left me in a mess.

Over the last 6 months I have had 3 job offers withdrawn (from Banks). They state I have a CCJ but I suspect the real reason is the Caution that I have on my record. I don’t know what to do. I have 2 children and the situation is getting worse by the day. I humbly request all of you to come forward and offer your guidance on what I can do to put things right.

Many thanks,

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#2 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
11/05/2011 21:35

Pear to saas413 (#1)

mate - move to another country. How is this not obvious to you?

What was the CCJ for?

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#3 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
11/05/2011 22:33

saas413 to Pear (#2)

Thats definitely an option but its simply not that easy. Financially, I am pretty much broke so starting from scratch in another country (with my family) is a tough call.

The CCJ was for a credit card debt.

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#4 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
12/05/2011 10:22

Mr Cool to saas413 (#1)

Saas413,

By the standards of this board this is a fairly serious situation and I’m sorry that advice I’m about to offer may not sound very positive, but based on the limited info you provide might turn out to be your best option.

First of all, I’m afraid you cannot underestimate the impact of a CCJ on your chances of getting a job with a bank. Most retail banks have for years turned down anyone with credit problems. They simply cannot afford the hypocrisy of their staff lecturing customers on the need for financial management when those staff have themselves run up debts they cannot afford. I am not here to pass judgement, I’m just stating fact. I’m afraid it does not surprise me in the current climate that IB’s are following suit. They are probably not lying when they say that this is why they are withdrawing the offers.

I seriously doubt that any bank that finds out you have a CCJ (and they all do credit checks as standard) will give you a job.

Secondly the caution for fraud is an absolute career killer in financial services. You are a little vague in “getting caught up” in the fraud, but as you received a caution, then no one is going to assume you were the victim – at best one would assume you were tricked into being an accomplice after the fact. Years ago I had a team member who allowed a boyfriend to receive mail at her company flat (which was rented by our company while she worked on site at a client) – unknown to her he was fraudulently applying for cards and loans at that address. She too received a caution as the police view was that the twenty-plus pieces of mail (all with bank logos) that she passed onto her boyfriend should have been enough to arouse her suspicion. She was also fired.

Unfair or not, in accepting the caution you have admitted some degree of guilt.

So – what to do. Sorry but financial services and most probably the consultancy industry with FS is pretty much closed to you now. I seriously feel you have to move to different industry where the taint of a CCJ is more acceptable and then hope that you can explain away the fraud issue as a moment of isolated naivety.

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#5 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
12/05/2011 10:59

saas413 to Mr Cool (#4)

Dear Mr Cool,

Many thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed message.

Your views are valued and I am also of the opinion that life is going to be a total nightmare for me. Please allow me to offer some more insight on the Caution:

(1) An insurance claim was filed and the fraudster remained in contact with me for a few weeks

(2) Subsequently, the fraudster disappeared and I had no whereabouts of him. At this point I suspected he defrauded me

(3) The claim in the mean time was being investigated. My fault was not informing the authorities of his disappearance and my suspicions. At this point the authorities suspected that I was part of the plot to defraud.

(4) I admitted that I should have informed the authorities of his disappearance for which I was cautioned!

I lost over 8k and at the same time got cautioned. The story of my life!

So what are my options? Education and experiences have all been within the Financial world. Has all of this gone to waste?

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#6 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
12/05/2011 11:40

Ex-expat to deleted (#0)

saas413, I really do sympathise with you. Obviously you've shown some poor judgement in the past, but it does seem to be having a disproportionately negative impact on your life and your career, and I'm sorry about that.

Having said that, I'm afraid that I agree with Mr Cool - I do think that the caution for fraud especially, and to a lesser extent the CCJ, are going to shut you out of careers in banks and most consulting/professional service firms (any firm that carries out a Standard CRB check). I think you need to accept that.

But you shouldn't despair. What you do have is ten years' of investment banking and consulting experience, and that gives you a lot of valuable transferable skills. There are lots of sectors and comapnies that would value your experience and skills, and would not require a Standard CRB check.

These alternatives probably won't pay as well as IB or consulting, but they'll have a better work-life balance and allow you to spend more time with your family.

So I'd encourage you to make the best of yoru situation and look on this as an opportunity to explore new options. Have a serious think about what kind of career you might like to have outside the banking/consulting bubble(some professional career change advice might be worthwhile). You might also think about starting your own business.

Of course it's easy for me to say all this, and I do appreciate that making this kind of transition isn't going to look easy from where you're standing. But it could open up a whole new world of possibilities for you. Good luck.

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#7 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
12/05/2011 12:03

bloggsy to Ex-expat (#6)

Are you in employment in a bank at the moment?

Another option open to you would be to stay with your current employer and work through the period that the ccj (5 years I think) and caution are listed on your record. After this point you should not have an issue. While not ideal I think this is your best bet if you want to stay in financial services.

I would also establish clearance check requirements in other sectors as well before making any bold decisions.

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#8 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
12/05/2011 12:16

saas413 to Ex-expat (#6)

I value each and every piece of advise that is being offered. A big thanks to every contributor (Pear, Mr Cool, Ex-Pat, Bloggsy)

Yes, I do believe that the doors to FS and most consulting firms are pretty much shut in the UK at least. Am I "no-go" in other countries too? EU? Middle-East?

Starting my own business is definitely another option. My main problem right now is having to get my mind straight. Being unemployed for a while is driving me nuts and I just cant think straight. Yes, I have numerous skills to back me but I am failing to come to terms with all that is happening. I have a family, no income, degree from a top-tier Business school, diverse work experiences, travelled nearly every part of the world, AND am broke! Cant believe how life can turn upside down. I would have accepted the situation if the 2 wrongs came about by choice but they didnt!

Dear Bloggsy, I am currently unemployed. If I was employed that would have been a totally different story...

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#9 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
12/05/2011 12:53

Mr Cool to saas413 (#8)

Hmmm – a few follow up points in random order....

Self-employment – could be the answer, but beware that if by this you include contracting, you will find that contract recruitment agencies almost always run CRB and Credit checks on behalf of their end-clients –particularly when client is a bank.

Have you contacted the Citizens Advice Bureau? They have a wealth of experience in helping people with credit problems (they offer free advice and support on CCJ’s and IVA’s etc). They should also be able to put you in contact with organisations that help people into work post-conviction. This might sound a bit dramatic as this normally means people who have been in prison, but frankly the impact on your career might well be as significant in the short term as a spell in prison. Make an appointment and see if they can help.

The other thing to consider is whether you can re-visit the entire question of the caution. Unless you are being selective in your description of what happened there is a question in my mind as to what charge the police would have levelled if you had refused to accept the caution. There is a tendency amongst people who are caught up in something illegal to accept a caution without realising a) the impact on their career, and b) the likelihood of a successful conviction if they refuse to accept the caution (as is your right). Depending on your politics, there are those who suggest that the police use cautions to improve their case closed rates!

Did you understand all this when you signed the caution? Did you ask for, or receive legal advice at that time? Had you spent the entire day at the cop-shop and perhaps just wanted to get home and draw a line under the affair? Did the police “sell” you on the idea of a caution while your head was in a fog of despair?

Or are you more culpable than you are implying?

The CAB should be able to help you with some legal advice on this matter too.

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#10 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
12/05/2011 13:21

snap to saas413 (#8)

Hey saas413, I feel for you in this impossible situation.

Like someone mentioned already, a career change is a good option and a may provide a breath of fresh air and a clean break that you need. Given you have so much going on, I suspect it's probably easier to stick to what you know already.

Surely overseas companies would require background and credit checks too? And I'm not so sure about starting your own company as it may present hurdles if you're looking to borrow money to start up.

Look at companies and jobs that don't deal directly with financial products and transactions, but have clients in the FS sector. Eg. IT consultancy and services companies. This way you can use your skills and experience without going through the more stringent credit check requirements of a FS type company.

Stay strong, and all the very best :)

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#11 CRB
12/05/2011 14:02

Secret Solicitor to snap (#10)

Your caution will NOT come up on a standard CRB, it is not a criminal conviction, and thus exempt from standard CRB check.

It will only come up if they run a full enhanced CRB check and they are only allowed to run this for SECURITY clearance jobs i.e. police, solicitor, teacher etc, which require the company to adhere to CRB rules and regulation etc, which basically mean they cant unfairly reject your application subject to human rights act.

The reason they have rejected you is solely based on your CCJ. Nothing to do with CRB, if they run CRB on you it will show clean record.

In fact if they ask if you got a criminal record make sure you say: NO!!!!!

any other questions let me know!

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#12 RE: CRB
12/05/2011 14:36

Mr Cool to Secret Solicitor (#11)

I agree with the above post, but sadly some employeres are aware of this and deliberately ask a quesiton that does not limit itself to convictions, but includes cautions, which must be declared.

Happy to be proven wrong on this.

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#13 RE: CRB
12/05/2011 14:38

saas413 to Secret Solicitor (#11)

Dear Secret Solicitor,

You make a valid point that no bank can unfairly reject anyone based on a caution. However my research shows that a Caution does not show on a Basic CRB check but it does on a Standard CRB check....could you kindly confirm this?

-------------------------------------

Dear Mr Cool,

Will definitely make an appointment to see CAB and get their take on this.

I have not hid anything about the Caution. You are right, I was under severe distress while at the cop-shop as I spent half a day there. Moreover, the matter was still being investigated and this went on for another 3 months till they finally issued me with a Caution, which I then accepted because I simply had enough of it!

--------------------------------------

Dear Snap,

Thanks for the advice and support, I will definitely look into these options.

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#14 RE: CRB
12/05/2011 14:41

saas413 to Mr Cool (#12)

Not every bank asks about cautions. But the one from which I had 2 job offers did....and I disclosed it.

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#15 RE: CRB
12/05/2011 16:58

Secret Solicitor to saas413 (#14)

A spent conviction shall not be proper grounds for not employing, or for sacking.

A Person with a ‘simple’ caution albeit not a criminal conviction, is a subject to the same protection.

Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (amended in 2008) police cautions, are considered to be spent as soon as they are given.

In other words, anyone using CRB to determine if you are a suitable candidate for a role, cannot, should not, and ought to not hold this against you.

If you can prove that the sole reason is this (caution) then they are violating your human rights and you may will have locus standi.

I am not sure if you know this, but CRB is generally run by a 3rd party come that does not even tell the employer what your conviction is, rather employer gives them a list of 'risk factors' which they consider.

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#16 RE: CRB
12/05/2011 18:52

Mr Cool to Secret Solicitor (#15)

Which goes back to my original point - the cgi really is the issue and the banks are not lying. In that case I'd suggest targeting consultancies - other than those involved in audit - who I would expect to care less (if at all) about the vfm. If the caution is spent then do not declare it.

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#17 RE: CRB
12/05/2011 18:55

Mr Cool to Mr Cool (#16)

Cgi and vfm should both read CCJ!

Predictive text!

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#18 RE: CRB
12/05/2011 23:53

saas413 to Mr Cool (#17)

Dear Secret Solicitor/Mr Cool,

You have really opened my eyes! You have given me a sense of relief. All of this is making a lot of sense. Yes, a 3rd party company asked me these questions...

If a bank specifically asks me: Do you have any cautions? Do I answer NO as its spent?

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#19 RE: CRB
13/05/2011 20:09

Mr Cool to saas413 (#18)

Correct.

Have you any convictions? NO - it is not a conviction.

Have you any cautions - NO. Not necessary to declare it as it is spent as soon as it is given.

UNLESS the job is declared exempt from Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 then the caution must be disclosed, no matter how long ago it was given.

Jobs that are declared exempt include teaching, working with kids, accountancy, some very senior banking jobs (e.g. FSA approved person level).

The caution WILL NOT show up on a basic CRB, but WILL on a standard or advanced. I believe BASIC are only used in Scotland, but wither way it is illegal for an employer to discriminate on the basis of a spent conviction/caution.

The only issue you have is the CCJ. There are a few options regardign that...

There are some options to remove a CCJ from the register or have the information on it corrected. These include:

•Paying the CCJ in full within a month If you do this, details of the county court judgment are removed altogether from the register.

•Paying the CCJ later You can get a certificate of satisfaction, in which case the CCJ is marked as satisfied on the register (but stays on it). Anyone who checks it will know that you have paid what you owe.

•Wait six years The register holds details of CCJs for six years. For them to be removed, you have to wait for this time limit

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#20 RE: CRB
13/05/2011 20:59

Dave to Mr Cool (#19)

Surely any sensible employer will ask "have you ever received a caution or been convicted of a crime?"

Basically, you may as well forget working in financial services or banking with that track record. I mean, come on.... just be sensible and think about it for a minute. It's obvious this is a no-go really.

Have you perhaps tried consulting instead? Any old charlatan can become a consultant. Also, maybe try smaller companies that have less stringent checks?

Also, not that I advocate it, if you change your name can you basically create a new identity and wipe the slate clean so to speak? Get off the databases by creating yourself a new "unique identifier"? LOL Just a thought....! Don't do it though.

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#21 RE: CRB
13/05/2011 21:21

Secret Solicitor to Dave (#20)

Dave, I think you are wrong, if you are to discriminate people for making one mistake in life, then you writing them off from society, it is this sort of behaviour and act that lead to further crime.

We all make mistakes, surely a 2nd chance should be given.

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#22 RE: CRB
14/05/2011 06:48

Bloggsy to Secret Solicitor (#21)

"may as well forget working in financial services or banking" - that's what we have spent the entire thread trying to disprove - jeez!!!

Try and get the CCJ satisfied and you'll be in a much better position.

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#23 RE: CRB
15/05/2011 17:44

Wowser to Secret Solicitor (#21)

Dave – engage your brain. 0/10 for the comprehension exercise.

No – any sensible employer WILL NOT ask those questions, because to do so (in that way) would land them in a heap of trouble for discriminating on the basis of a spent caution – doh!

Consultancies will generally have the same CRB checks – but that’s not the point (read the thread and see why not).

Change your name! Wow no criminals would have thought of that. You ever SEEN a CRB check. You are required to provide all previous names and aliases, AND sufficient personal data to prove you are who you say you are – which would link you back immediately to any formal name change (even if you do not declare it). Also lying on a CRB is a criminal offence.

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#24 RE: CRB
15/05/2011 22:07

saas413 to Wowser (#23)

Dear All,

Many thanks for the input. A special thanks to Mr Cool and the Secret Solicitor (you guys have been a real support....honestly).

I am now of the opinion that its the CCJ which is the real sticking point. I will seek help from friends and family to get this satisfied. At least his way, I can assure my prospective employer that I dont run-away from my honouring my commitments. Yes, I got into trouble but all I know is Banking/Financial services and I simply dont believe that my credentials will go to waste just by making a couple of stupid mistakes!

I have a couple of final rounds with consultancies (one of which is a Big 4). Let's see what happens there and I will keep the forum posted.

Once again, my special thanks to all the contributors. Please keep adding any useful information.....

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#25 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
26/05/2011 15:06

Village Idiot to saas413 (#24)

Sorry, a bit late to the game here. For what it's worth, I think that you've probably got a deal-breaker at any Big-4 firm. They tend to vet their people with more-or-less the same rigour as a bank, due to the nature of their audit businesses. They've done a background check at every Big 4 I've worked with.

You've got a much better chance if you apply to a non big 4 consultancy. They're much less likely to run a background check or ask questions -- and generally, the smaller the company, the lower the risk.

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#26 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
28/10/2012 17:18

TR2012 to Secret Solicitor (#11)

Dear Mr Cool, Secret Solicitor,

I need your help.

I have received a police caution and currently working in an international bank for over 5 years. Will my current employer find out about this ? I am afraid I am required to inform them of the caution and therefore lose my job (the caution is similar to saas413) but without the CCJ.

THe caution was from extremely poor judgement and i know its hard to trust me to hear this, but I am a person of good character. Basically a very tough year and circumstances led to my poor judgement.

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#27 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
28/10/2012 17:19

TR2012 to Mr Cool (#19)

Dear Mr Cool, Secret Solicitor,

I need your help.

I have received a police caution and currently working in an international bank for over 5 years. Will my current employer find out about this ? I am afraid I am required to inform them of the caution and therefore lose my job (the caution is similar to saas413) but without the CCJ.

THe caution was from extremely poor judgement and i know its hard to trust me to hear this, but I am a person of good character. Basically a very tough year and circumstances led to my poor judgement.

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#28 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
29/10/2012 15:50

Bravehearted to TR2012 (#27)

Check what your terms of employment says regarding this, and seek legal counsel.

Whatever you do, don't make it worse such that it impacts any future opportunities. E.g don't lie such that future employers will be told by your current employer that your character is not up to standard.

Good luck.

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#29 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
30/10/2012 12:27

marsday to TR2012 (#27)

TR2012 whether you are dismissed following your caution may well depend on the discretion of your employer - and this in turn on what the caution was for.

Get professional advice from a solicitor or CAB but I would expect you will unfortunately find your financial services career cut short abruptly.

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#30 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
26/10/2013 21:24

Nick_2013 to saas413 (#24)

Hi Saas413, apologies for the late reply but I would be grateful for your advice. I have found myself in a very similar situation to you in that I was made redundant from my Financial Services job, now have a CCJ and am finding it extremely difficult to get a job back in FS due to the CCJ on my credit record.

Basically, did you have any luck finding employment with these circumstances ? Did you make it back into FS or did you have to look elsewhere? Any advice on where to go from here would be gratefully appreciated.

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#31 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
19/05/2015 13:17

saas413 to Nick_2013 (#30)

Hi,

Never got hired! Believe it or not only 5 days ago I had a another job pulled from RBS eventhough my CCJ is 5yrs and 11 months old. They simply wont listen.

Just hanging in there for another 2 months....

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#32 RE: A CCJ and a Caution - Help me get hired please!
25/01/2017 09:15

Rob6262 to saas413 (#31)

Hi saas413,

Just wondering if you are now working in banking now that your CCJ is over 6 years old?

I've heard tha one of the question they ask "have you ever had a CCJ" can they find this out if your CCJ is over 6 years old and you don't declare it? One 3 big banks.

Thanks

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